Well, that was a short hiatus!! I'm glad I didn't force the inspiration though--force never works. It fights the natural flow of the stream of life. Now, on with the new post!!
May 26, 2011
They said on the news that they will "attempt" to make him fit for trial. If he's not fit for trial, then he clearly wasn't mentally fit when he committed the crime. However, if we dope him up enough, we can throw him in prison and exact our revenge on a mentally sick man??? How can he be thrown in prison, after treatment supposedly makes him "fit for trial" when he wasn't mentally fit at the time of the crime? I don't for one minute excuse his actions, and firmly believe he should be isolated from society, in a hospital, for the criminally insane, for the rest of his life. However, that said, how can he be convicted as a mentally fit man, after the crime was committed as an mentally unfit man? By that logic, a prisoner who committed a crime as a mentally fit person should be able to be acquitted, if he later develops a mental illness that renders him insane.
The last place we should put this individual is in prison, where he will only be agitated further, which could place the staff and other inmates in danger. I think it's safer for everyone to put him in a treatment facility where they have the medications, staff and experience with such cases. As distasteful as it may sound, he does deserve humane treatment. Just because he committed barbaric acts, doesn't give us the right to be barbaric in return. This isn't just a test of his sanity, but a test of how we will behave toward someone who has caused a lot of suffering. If we treat him with brutality in return for how he treated the Congresswoman, then we have just as much a lesson to learn about compassion as he does.
It scares me sometimes how vengeful people can be when they talk of torturing and tormenting prisoners for their crimes. I always look at people who speak that way in a different light. It makes me wonder what's going on in their heads!! It's scary how quickly their religious values and moral beliefs about laws and behavior go out the window when the target is a criminal. It's never ok to treat people in such a way--even if they are hardened criminals. Why? Because then we lose our humanity as a society--and within ourselves. If we behave that way toward criminals, then are we really that different from them?
~Peace to all beings~
10 comments:
Nice to have you back !
I agree with you James, his actions are in the past. Any punishment now or future isn't going to change what he did in the past.
I agree with you. You made some good points. And I agree that it is troubling how vengeful our society can be.
I just went to The University of Arkansas to attend the panel discussion with HH the Dalai Lama and Sister Helen Prejean and Vincent Harding...need I say more???
I had exactly the same conversation with....erm....myself the other day, having watched a documentary about Strangeways Prison over here. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.Men screaming and crying and clearly mentally ill or all over the place. A really thought provoking post. Thank you. :-)
Hi James.
I sympathise with your views, but under the law Loughner is innocent of the crime until proven guilty in a court of law.
What they are saying is that he is not presently fit to stand trial to determine whether or not he was culpable at the time. He is being given the benefit of the doubt - at least nominally, since there seems to be no doubt that he killed those people. He can't be tried in absentia - a principle of law dating back to the Magna Carta!
Other mass murderers have been lucid and understood that they were doing wrong. One was just arrested in Serbia for instance. The man is a monster, but is he insane? But even this man we know to be a monster is going to have his trial.
I strongly disagree with the idea that once you are judged mentally ill you are always mentally ill (and I would say the term 'mental-illness' itself is deeply problematic). Psychosis is often episodic. Many people have a single psychotic episode in their life, and are never affected again. Loughner may be in a different category.
I also disagree, with some reservations, about your characterisation of the treatment of the mentally ill as torture. I don't think that doctors set out to hurt psychotic people, I think they set out to help them - though of course the way they help is ideologically driven. It is certainly true that they deprive people of their liberty (which you seem ambivalent about) and that they administer drugs without consent. Sometimes those drugs have powerful and harmful side-effects. Though sometimes they enable a person to become lucid again - they suppress delusions and hallucinations. It's not like living with delusions and hallucinations is a picnic. I've read a number of accounts of people who recovered from psychotic episodes (whether one off, or repeated) and they all describe it as hellish. [see e.g. the Faber Book of Madness] So it's not as straight-forward as saying that the 'cure' is worse than the disease.
I think it very likely that Loughner is guilty, but not culpable - i.e. he did it, but had no insight into his actions at the time. But it's up to a judge and jury to decide that. In the mean time he is not fit to stand trial, and as far as I can see is being treated as a patient - a very dangerous patient - and not a criminal.
BTW James you are not on trial. Your writing is consistently lucid and insightful - I may not always agree, but this is merely having a different opinion and I may be in error. Whatever troubles you may be having, you are NOT in the same category as Loughner. I don't think it would be helpful for you to identify with Loughner (if that's what you are doing).
I hope your break from blogging is helpful and I look forward to hearing from you again soon.
Best Wishes
Jayarava
@Jayarava...I have experienced, first hand, the depths of severe mental illness. I suffer from schizo-affective disorder, which is bipolar plus some aspects of schizophrenia. I unfortunately often deal with delusions, hallucinations and bouts of extreme paranoia. So, I'm very familiar with how debilitating it can be.
As for "curing" mental illness, it depends on how severe the condition. The majority of mental illnesses are biological and thus, a serious medical condition. You're right that medications help but they don't cure--they help manage symptoms. As yes, they do have terrible side effects but it's better than slipping into psychosis without them.
By saying it is torture to keep a mentally ill prisoner in prison, I was merely stating how prisons are often inadequate for helping improve the minds of the mentally unstable. Mental hospitals are better qualified for such prisoners.
I take medications that are supposed to suppress my delusions and hallucinations, but they don't end them. Even despite the meds, they sometimes still break through. The medications are certainly not a cure. So, believe me, I know all about hellish delusions and hallucinations. I don't take it lightly for one minute. I live it daily.
I agree that his culpability is up to a judge and jury. I was assuming that given the determination of his unfit status that he would eventually end up in a mental institution. I realize that he's innocent until proven guilty.
My strong position is from the viewpoint of being a fellow mentally ill person. I am just concerned with all the mentally ill people we put in prison, rather than in hospitals where they will be better treated.
I hear you James. But then again, as I said, you consistently come across as lucid, coherent, insightful, and empathetic - more so than many other Bloggers (what does that say about them?). Perhaps it's just that you write well, but despite what you say I find it impossible to think of you in the same category as Loughner!
I agree that it would be a terrible thing if Loughner simply ended up in prison - he clearly needs to be cared for at the same time as being deprived of opportunities to hurt people.
All the best
Jayarava
Not been here for awhile James, hope you feel well soon.
There are so many people suffer and sometimes they do not know they are suffering ... perhaps at times people take advantage of those that are weak and gullable ... for their beliefs.
I gather you've gone quiet again, since writing this. Just as an offering, should you be missing the work, you might try checking out the "small stones" site I talk about on The Buddha Diaries today. Not every entry has to be a discursive one.
No human being that commits a crime is mentally fit. Commiting a murder is not for a sane person. If it were sane it would commit the crime in the first place. I'm not talking about the person that steals a chicken because he's hungry. He just wants food.
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